Comments on: Thick, thin, virtualised, whatever: it’s how you manage the desktop that counts http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm get-info -class technology | write-output > /dev/web Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:23:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Mark Wilson http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-118377 Mark Wilson Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:40:06 +0000 http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-118377 @Robert - you raise some good points but here are few couple more considerations: <ul> <li>You advocate creating a PHP app where something suitable doesn't already exist. There's a cost attached to maintaining bespoke code too - particularly when the author leaves the company. Same for GNU/Linux - free as in beer, but not free to operate, support, maintain, etc.</li> <li>I'm not sure that the hardware argument stacks up - I recently built a low-power PC for less than £150 and couldn't buy a terminal (e.g. Wyse) for that money.</li> <li>Laptop sales outstrip desktops, so that reduces the potential for use of thin client devices... unless its thin client software on a thick client hardware device.</li> <li>1024x768 is no longer standard. If I look at the stats for this website, many users use larger screens. 1280x768 is entry-level notebook PC these days (4:3 is quickly being replaced by widescreen) and the smaller monitor sizes are also starting to drop off for desktops - it simply doesn't make sense to run 1024x768 on a 19" monitor.</li> </ul> The reports that the presentation I wrote about here was based on were all produced by independant analysts. There will be thin client fans, thick client fans, VDI fans, but the simple answer is that the desktop deliver technology is simply a means to an end - and one size rarely fits all. @Robert – you raise some good points but here are few couple more considerations:

  • You advocate creating a PHP app where something suitable doesn’t already exist. There’s a cost attached to maintaining bespoke code too – particularly when the author leaves the company. Same for GNU/Linux – free as in beer, but not free to operate, support, maintain, etc.
  • I’m not sure that the hardware argument stacks up – I recently built a low-power PC for less than £150 and couldn’t buy a terminal (e.g. Wyse) for that money.
  • Laptop sales outstrip desktops, so that reduces the potential for use of thin client devices… unless its thin client software on a thick client hardware device.
  • 1024×768 is no longer standard. If I look at the stats for this website, many users use larger screens. 1280×768 is entry-level notebook PC these days (4:3 is quickly being replaced by widescreen) and the smaller monitor sizes are also starting to drop off for desktops – it simply doesn’t make sense to run 1024×768 on a 19″ monitor.

The reports that the presentation I wrote about here was based on were all produced by independant analysts. There will be thin client fans, thick client fans, VDI fans, but the simple answer is that the desktop deliver technology is simply a means to an end – and one size rarely fits all.

]]> By: Robert Pogson http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-118325 Robert Pogson Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:43:32 +0000 http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-118325 If you lock things down so that software maintenance costs are minimal then hardware costs come to the fore. Hard drives, CD drives, RAM and CPU all cost more for a thick client than a thin client so thin client wins on price. The performance of a good server is not affordable on all PCs in an organization so thin client solutions are the way to go. I would not even look at a thick client solution for more than a tiny percentage of seats on a typical system. Forget 3 or 4 year refresh cycles for thin clients. It's more like 10 years. After all, most of use still use 1024x768 which has been available for nearly 20 years. When I look at terminal servers, I see little need for anything from Redmond. If GNU/Linux has no app, I write one in PHP and deliver it through the web browser. UNIX shared memory maximizes performance per dollar on the server too. The thin client shows the pix and sends the clicks so it can run GNU/Linux. Saving licence costs on servers and clients is a huge part of the cost of acquisition. If you lock things down so that software maintenance costs are minimal then hardware costs come to the fore. Hard drives, CD drives, RAM and CPU all cost more for a thick client than a thin client so thin client wins on price. The performance of a good server is not affordable on all PCs in an organization so thin client solutions are the way to go. I would not even look at a thick client solution for more than a tiny percentage of seats on a typical system. Forget 3 or 4 year refresh cycles for thin clients. It’s more like 10 years. After all, most of use still use 1024×768 which has been available for nearly 20 years.

When I look at terminal servers, I see little need for anything from Redmond. If GNU/Linux has no app, I write one in PHP and deliver it through the web browser. UNIX shared memory maximizes performance per dollar on the server too.

The thin client shows the pix and sends the clicks so it can run GNU/Linux. Saving licence costs on servers and clients is a huge part of the cost of acquisition.

]]> By: John Quirk http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-115253 John Quirk Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:07:02 +0000 http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-115253 I agree with much of this. I can't imagine that Microsoft aren't working on a client side hypervisor but haven't heard a whisper about it... There's certainly a strong message around the Optimized Desktop, and that, coupled with the deployment scenarios in v.next of ConfigMgr sure start to deliver on the 'single pane of glass' configuration management we hear so much about. I've long struggled with the ROI arguments for vDi. Given the ease of management you can achieve within System Center, I do not believe that the normal ROI arguments for vDi stack up, and if you don't currently have top of the range management tools and processes in place, your vDi project is going to be a disaster anyway. I have seen a couple of really good vDi projects, where the customer had a real use-case for the tech and it works really well, but for the vast majority I don't think it's anywhere near ready yet and the investment would be much better made around desktop optimization NOW, easing the path to vDi if it ever gets to a point where it's technically, economically and functionally viable/attractive. I agree with Aiden above, I'm really looking forward to v.next, could be quite a wait though... In the mean time, roll on Service Manager! I agree with much of this. I can’t imagine that Microsoft aren’t working on a client side hypervisor but haven’t heard a whisper about it… There’s certainly a strong message around the Optimized Desktop, and that, coupled with the deployment scenarios in v.next of ConfigMgr sure start to deliver on the ’single pane of glass’ configuration management we hear so much about.

I’ve long struggled with the ROI arguments for vDi. Given the ease of management you can achieve within System Center, I do not believe that the normal ROI arguments for vDi stack up, and if you don’t currently have top of the range management tools and processes in place, your vDi project is going to be a disaster anyway. I have seen a couple of really good vDi projects, where the customer had a real use-case for the tech and it works really well, but for the vast majority I don’t think it’s anywhere near ready yet and the investment would be much better made around desktop optimization NOW, easing the path to vDi if it ever gets to a point where it’s technically, economically and functionally viable/attractive.

I agree with Aiden above, I’m really looking forward to v.next, could be quite a wait though… In the mean time, roll on Service Manager!

]]> By: Aidan Finn http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-115064 Aidan Finn Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:44:49 +0000 http://www.markwilson.co.uk/blog/2009/11/thick-thin-virtualised-whatever-its-how-you-manage-the-desktop-that-counts.htm#comment-115064 Sounds about right to me. You name the technology, I reckon a well managed PC beats it 95% of the time. VDI, I'm not sold. The costs for the hardware and licensing are too high. Terminal Services has a role and blends nicely with the PC. Look at PC costs these days. They're only a few euros/pounds more than a decent terminal. As for replacability, do things right with your network and the use can self-provision a PC in 15 minutes and all of their data is on the network. Laptops: BitLocker rocks there for security even for non-SA customers thanks to the new low price of Ultimate edition. The PC combined with well designed and run ConfigMgr, AD/Group Policy cannot be beat most of the time. And it's only getting better. ConfigMgr vNext totally rocks. The briefing at TEE09 was an eye opener and I can't wait to play with the beta. Sounds about right to me. You name the technology, I reckon a well managed PC beats it 95% of the time. VDI, I’m not sold. The costs for the hardware and licensing are too high. Terminal Services has a role and blends nicely with the PC.

Look at PC costs these days. They’re only a few euros/pounds more than a decent terminal. As for replacability, do things right with your network and the use can self-provision a PC in 15 minutes and all of their data is on the network. Laptops: BitLocker rocks there for security even for non-SA customers thanks to the new low price of Ultimate edition.

The PC combined with well designed and run ConfigMgr, AD/Group Policy cannot be beat most of the time. And it’s only getting better. ConfigMgr vNext totally rocks. The briefing at TEE09 was an eye opener and I can’t wait to play with the beta.

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